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HA signed a firm order for 16 A321 NEOS, + 9 options. At the end of 2012 there were rumours four seasons hotel mattress about a 320 NEO order. Is this a Split from that announcement or had they changed their mind in favour of the 321 ?
Why would the 350 not be useful? It would allow more capacity and longer range than the 332. HAL has been quiet on the 350-800 issue other than they remain committed to the deal at this point and I highly doubt they'll move to the -900 variant.
Because they have no need for that range and very little for that capacity, and definitely no need for the A350-800's extra weight. The A330-200 can easily fly to anywhere in North America and East Asia, and it's more than big enough for almost all their routes. My view is that flying to Europe -- really the only place the A350 can get them that the A330 can't -- is a low-yield, high-cost fool's errand.
I see that as a very narrow minded view on the matter of the 350. The idea of Europe has been mentioned, but nothing has been committed. HAL has said that it will explore the opportunity and the bridge would be crossed if the time is right. The 332 will prohibit expansion beyond its limitations should HAL see that opportunity. Very much like the 767/332 are prohibiting four seasons hotel mattress domestic expansion. The company is broadening its horizons with the purchase of the 321neo now that there is a plane that can allow for viable expansion. Given the hunger for China, once the visa limitations are solved (hopefully) four seasons hotel mattress the 350 could end up being the better a/c suited for that market. It may not be an ULH flight, but could eliminate weight penalties that the 332 could impose, same holds true for SE Asia should that market become attractive for nonstop service to Hawaii.
I recall reading elsewhere on this forum that the GTF has a small advantage over the LEAP in cruise, while LEAP has an advantage in climb. Given that HA will be operating these aircraft almost exclusively to the West Coast (i.e. they won't be inter-island workhorses), I would give PW the benefit of the doubt on the order. Of course, since these contracts tend to be power-by-the-hour, whoever offers four seasons hotel mattress the best hourly rate will likely win the order.
Probably a bit of both. In the long-term, the 767's are going away. There isn't really a good 763 replacement available in the time frame required. For West Coast destinations, the A321NEO might be a good choice. For example, they could send 2xA320NEO to a market like OAK . They could also use it as a tag-on to add additional frequencies to markets that already get an A330, like SFO . And they could use it to serve existing markets to islands that don't currently have direct HA service, like LIH and the Big Island destinations. There are also markets that they might be able to serve (maybe RNO ?) that they can't serve with a widebody due to low demand.
Unless they use this aircraft for inter islands service, the "climb" portion of the flights is always a very small percentage of the flight time compared with the time in cruise to any west coast destination.... If the difference is relevant, I tend to think that the decision is pretty obvious....
Quoting aloha73g ( Reply 15 ): Hawaiian explicitly stated that the 321s would be used to serve existing mainland four seasons hotel mattress destinations from the neighbor islands, and also to add seats from HNL as needed (daily 321 vs 4x weekly 767).
A great example is OGG - PDX - OGG , the 763 has proven to be too much aircraft for a daily year 'round flight, or even a seasonal four seasons hotel mattress 4x weekly flight, so HA pulled that PDX - OGG flight, and upgauged their PDX - HNL flight to a 330.
just curious, dont mean to start an A vsB thread, but why is HA so seemingly anti B? its rare for an airline these days to only order new from one maker, but HA seems t o be in the A only camp. Cant think of many other short and long range buyers except Air Asia who are only Airbus vs ordering from both. I am talking new airframe orders, I know the fleet is diverse at this point, but the direction for being an all A carrier seems pretty definite. Dont take me as a B loyalist, I have flown the most as a pax on Airbus planes by a good margin, just curious, thats all.
just curious, dont mean to start an A vsB thread, but why is HA so seemingly anti B? its rare for an airline these days to only order new from one maker, but HA seems t o be in the A only camp. Cant think of many other short and long range buyers four seasons hotel mattress except Air Asia who are only Airbus vs ordering from both. I am talking new airframe orders, I know the fleet is diverse at this point, but the direction for being an all A carrier seems pretty definite. Dont take me as a B loyalist, I have flown the most as a pax on Airbus planes by a good margin, just curious, four seasons hotel mattress thats all.
HA was never a Boeing airline until around 1999-2000 when they picked up the 767s. That circa-2000 order was literally the first time HA had ever operated Boeing aircraft since starting four seasons hotel mattress up in 1929; they've flown Douglas planes of various types for most of their history. In particular, HA has been incredibly loyal to the DC-9 line; they first flew the DC-9-10 in 1966, and have been flying some version of it (-10, -30, -50, MD -81, MD -95/717) ever since.
IIRC, the decision four seasons hotel mattress to buy the A358 and A332 was driven in part because HA bundled two distinct requirements into an RFP they issued when they were studying fleet options. The first was for medium-term growth to a mix of domestic and international cities, and the second was for long-term growth into China and possibly Europe. Boeing offered more 763s and the 788, while Airbus offerred the A332 and A358. HA saw the 788 and A358 as substantially similar for their purposes, but the A332 offered more opportunity for growth with more range and more payload. (This paragraph is based on an old podcast featuring Mark Dunkerley that I remember hearing years ago, but I have no idea where to find it now. As such, my mind could just be messing with me on this.)
A 320 would be great on SAN - OGG for instance. Has sometimes flown the route using a 767. Every 767 HA flight from SAN to HNL has been virtually 100% capacity on the flights I've flown, but the flights to OGG from SAN on the 767 have always had several empty rows. (although personally I love a widebody between SAN and OGG !)
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